Saturday, January 31, 2015

Fight Night

Another awesome event this weekend. This has probably been the best month of MMA since I've been watching (2011).

UFC 183 - Silva vs. Diaz  (2015-01-31)
#3MW93Anderson SilvaNRWW79Nick Diaz
#6WW85Tyron Woodley#13WW79Kelvin Gastelum
#30LW72Joe Lauzon#28LW72Al Iaquinta
#15MW76Tim Boetsch#8MW83Thales Leites
#17WW76Jordan Mein#27WW73Thiago Alves
#4W13565Miesha Tate#6W13563Sara McMann
#33MW70Derek Brunson#25MW72Ed Herman
#5FLW71Ian McCall#19FLW60John Lineker
#41MW68Tom Watson#46MW66Rafael Natal
#55FW64Diego Brandao#61FW63Jim Hettes
#132WW61Ildemar Alcantara#177LHW51Richardson Moreira
#173MW55Andy Enz#139MW56Thiago Santos

Vegas likes Gastelum and Brunson.

Well, after Gastelum badly misses weight the odds shift to Woodley, right in line with CCR. McMann has become almost a 2-1 favorite over Tate.

UFC 183 - Silva vs. Diaz  (2015-01-31)
#2MW↑194↑2Anderson SilvaUnan.#16WW77↓2Nick Diaz
#6WW85Tyron WoodleySplit#13WW79Kelvin Gastelum
#19LW↑975↑2Al IaquintaTKO#46LW↓1669↓3Joe Lauzon
#7MW↑185↑2Thales LeitesSub.#17MW↓274↓2Tim Boetsch
#14WW↑1379↑5Thiago AlvesKO#30WW↓1372↓3Jordan Mein
#3W135↑167↑2Miesha TateMaj.#6W13561↓2Sara McMann
#19MW↑1474↑4Derek BrunsonTKO#35MW↓1069↓3Ed Herman
#10FLW↑965↑5John LinekerUnan.#8FLW↓365↓6Ian McCall
#37MW↑969↑3Rafael NatalUnan.#64MW↓2364↓4Tom Watson
#143WW↓1260↓1Ildemar AlcantaraSplit#166LHW↑1151↑1Richardson Moreira
#108MW↑3159↑3Thiago SantosTKO#227MW↓5552↓3Andy Enz

Thursday, January 29, 2015

Silva vs. Diaz

Jack Slack's written some nice articles this week, culminating in The Paths Meet: Nick Diaz and Anderson Silva Collide.

One of the articles talks about the Diaz-Gomi fight in 2007 that was overturned to a no contest. This is the black circle at that point on the graph. If Diaz had passed the drug test he would've risen to 82 points.

I've been setting the 100th ranked active fighter to 75 points, but this adds some unnecessary noise. You can see this better in the Cerrone-Henderson graph, but for example looking at Diaz in 2002 after his first fight, all the movement there is due to jostling near the #100 ranking. Next week I'll make a slight adjustment to the rating system to fix this.

Monday, January 26, 2015

On the Horizon

OrgOn the HorizonDate
UFC#3MW93Anderson Silva±380NRWW79Nick Diaz2015-01-31
UFC#6WW85Tyron Woodley±180#13WW79Kelvin Gastelum2015-01-31
UFC#15MW76Tim Boetsch±190#8MW83Thales Leites2015-01-31
UFC#5FLW71Ian McCall±300#19FLW60John Lineker2015-01-31
UFC#4W13565Miesha Tate±120#6W13563Sara McMann2015-01-31
Bellator#8FW76Pat Curran±140#14FW73Daniel Weichel2015-02-13
UFC#12LW78Edson Barboza±140#19LW75Michael Johnson2015-02-22
UFC#20HW70Frank Mir±190#9HW76Antonio Silva2015-02-22

Top Tens

Rumble moves into the P4P rankings and Mousasi moves into the top ten middleweights. Cormier loses a point because his win over Henderson doesn't look as impressive now.

Pound-for-Pound
#1P4P104Jon Jones
#2P4P101Chris Weidman
#3P4P98Georges St. Pierre
#4P4P97Jose Aldo
#5P4P95Cain Velasquez
#6P4P93Vitor Belfort
#7P4P93Anderson Silva
#8P4P↑592↑2Anthony Johnson
#9P4P↓191Rory MacDonald
#10P4P91↑1Ronaldo Souza
Heavyweight
#1HW95Cain Velasquez
#2HW90Fabricio Werdum
#3HW89Junior dos Santos
#4HW81Travis Browne
#5HW78Andrei Arlovski
#6HW78Josh Barnett
#7HW77Ben Rothwell
#8HW76Mark Hunt
#9HW76Antonio Silva
#10HW76Alistair Overeem
Light Heavyweight
#1LHW104Jon Jones
#2LHW↑192↑2Anthony Johnson
#3LHW↓190↓1Daniel Cormier
#4LHW↑188Rashad Evans
#5LHW↓187↓2Phil Davis
#6LHW↑185↑2Ryan Bader
#7LHW↓183↓3Alexander Gustafsson
#8LHW82Glover Teixeira
#9LHW81Chael Sonnen
#10LHW81Antonio Nogueira
Middleweight
#1MW101Chris Weidman
#2MW93Vitor Belfort
#3MW93Anderson Silva
#4MW91↑1Ronaldo Souza
#5MW89Lyoto Machida
#6MW89Luke Rockhold
#7MW↑683↑4Gegard Mousasi
#8MW↓183Thales Leites
#9MW82Mamed Khalidov
#10MW82Yoel Romero
Welterweight
#1WW98Georges St. Pierre
#2WW91Rory MacDonald
#3WW89Hector Lombard
#4WW88Johny Hendricks
#5WW86Ben Askren
#6WW85Tyron Woodley
#7WW84Robbie Lawler
#8WW84Jake Shields
#9WW82Demian Maia
#10WW82Rousimar Palhares
Lightweight
#1LW90Donald Cerrone
#2LW89Anthony Pettis
#3LW86Rafael dos Anjos
#4LW85Khabib Nurmagomedov
#5LW82Gilbert Melendez
#6LW82Will Brooks
#7LW81Benson Henderson
#8LW81Shinya Aoki
#9LW81Eddie Alvarez
#10LW79Jim Miller
Featherweight
#1FW97Jose Aldo
#2FW89Frankie Edgar
#3FW87Patricio Freire
#4FW85Chad Mendes
#5FW82Ricardo Lamas
#6FW79Cub Swanson
#7FW78Conor McGregor
#8FW76Pat Curran
#9FW76Charles Oliveira
#10FW75Daniel Straus
Bantamweight
#1BW85Dominick Cruz
#2BW81Renan Barao
#3BW79Raphael Assuncao
#4BW78Bibiano Fernandes
#5BW78T.J. Dillashaw
#6BW78Urijah Faber
#7BW75Joe Warren
#8BW73Iuri Alcantara
#9BW72Chris Holdsworth
#10BW69Aljamain Sterling
Flyweight
#1FLW81Demetrious Johnson
#2FLW78Joseph Benavidez
#3FLW75Kyoji Horiguchi
#4FLW74John Dodson
#5FLW↑271Ian McCall
#6FLW↓171Wilson Reis
#7FLW↓171Jussier da Silva
#8FLW68Hiromasa Ogikubo
#9FLW65Zach Makovsky
#10FLW65Yuki Motoya
 
Women Bantamweight
#1W13579Ronda Rousey
#2W13570Cat Zingano
#3W13567Sarah Kaufman
#4W13565Miesha Tate
#5W13564Alexis Davis
#6W13563Sara McMann
#7W13561Jessica Eye
#8W13560Holly Holm
#9W13559Bethe Correia
#10W13558Tonya Evinger
Women Strawweight
#1W11568Carla Esparza
#2W11567Jessica Aguilar
#3W11564Joanna Jedrzejczyk
#4W11563Claudia Gadelha
#5W11561Megumi Fujii
#6W11560Joanne Calderwood
#7W11560Rose Namajunas
#8W11559Tecia Torres
#9W11558Justine Kish
#10W11558Katja Kankaanpaa
Women Featherweight
#1W14560Marloes Coenen
#2W14558Julia Budd
#3W14553Ediane Gomes
Women Flyweight
#1W12566Barb Honchak
#2W12562↑1DeAnna Bennett
#3W12558Vanessa Porto
Women Atomweight
#1W10562Ayaka Hamasaki
#2W10554Herica Tiburcio
#3W10550Michelle Waterson

Saturday, January 24, 2015

Fight Night

UFC on Fox 14 - Gustafsson vs. Johnson  (2015-01-24)
#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson±130#3LHW89Anthony Johnson
#13MW80Gegard Mousasi±130#8MW83Dan Henderson
#4LHW88Phil Davis±170#7LHW83Ryan Bader
#148FW56Akira Corassani±110#181FW55Sam Sicilia
#55WW67Nicholas Musoke±180#118WW62Albert Tumenov
#54WW68Kenny Robertson±140#66MW64Sultan Aliev
#293LW54Makwan Amirkhani±110#233FW53Andy Ogle
#166LHW51Nikita Krylov±220NRLHW59Stanislav Nedkov
#292LW54Anthony Christodoulou±340#73LW66Mairbek Taisumov
#75FW61Mirsad Bektic±210#289LW54Paul Redmond
#28HW67Konstantin Erokhin±350#90HW55Viktor Pesta
#56BW60Chris Beal±190#61FLW54Neil Seery

The biggest differences with Vegas: Henderson (CCR doesn't know about age), Johnson (CCR doesn't know about home-field advantage), Nedkov instead a toss-up, Musoke.

Experimenting with a different format for the odds:

UFC on Fox 14 - Gustafsson vs. Johnson  (2015-01-24)
#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson#3LHW89Anthony Johnson
#13MW80Gegard Mousasi#8MW83Dan Henderson
#4LHW88Phil Davis#7LHW83Ryan Bader
#148FW56Akira Corassani#181FW55Sam Sicilia
#55WW67Nicholas Musoke#118WW62Albert Tumenov
#54WW68Kenny Robertson#66MW64Sultan Aliev
#293LW54Makwan Amirkhani#233FW53Andy Ogle
#166LHW51Nikita KrylovNRLHW59Stanislav Nedkov
#292LW54Anthony Christodoulou#73LW66Mairbek Taisumov
#75FW61Mirsad Bektic#289LW54Paul Redmond
#28HW67Konstantin Erokhin#90HW55Viktor Pesta
#56BW60Chris Beal#61FLW54Neil Seery

Here's the recap. Full ratings will be updated on Monday as usual. Nedkov hadn't fought in about two years so his rating ended up moving the most. Pesta over Erokhin was the biggest upset, CCR would still favor Erokhin slightly in a rematch.

UFC on Fox 14 - Gustafsson vs. Johnson  (2015-01-24)
#2LHW↑192↑2Anthony JohnsonTKO#7LHW↓183↓3Alexander Gustafsson
#7MW↑683↑4Gegard MousasiTKO#13MW↓579↓4Dan Henderson
#6LHW↑185↑2Ryan BaderSplit#5LHW↓187↓2Phil Davis
#118FW↑6358↑3Sam SiciliaKO#243FW↓9553↓4Akira Corassani
#73WW↑4566↑4Albert TumenovUnan.#91WW↓3664↓4Nicholas Musoke
#37WW↑1770↑3Kenny RobertsonKO#86MW↓2061↓3Sultan Aliev
#198LW↑9557↑3Makwan AmirkhaniTKO#334FW↓10150↓3Andy Ogle
#109LHW↑5755↑3Nikita KrylovSub.#165LHW51↓8Stanislav Nedkov
#58LW↑1567↑1Mairbek TaisumovKO#337LW↓4553↓1Anthony Christodoulou
#53FW↑2264↑3Mirsad BekticUnan.#244FW53↓2Paul Redmond
#44HW↑4661↑7Viktor PestaUnan.#41HW↓1363↓4Konstantin Erokhin
#32FLW↑2958↑4Neil SeeryUnan.#97BW↓4156↓4Chris Beal

Overall a pretty great card. When I first introduced these ratings, I said that 102 Jones vs 93 Cormier was the highest combined rating fight. Now it might be overtaken by 104 Jones vs 92 Rumble. Actually I'll be introducing fight/event/promotion ratings soon, stay tuned for that.

Thursday, January 22, 2015

State of the 205 Division

I'd like to draw your attention to a graphic made by Fedor FM for the light heavyweight division. He's made a couple others and will likely do more, you can check his reddit history here.

With the UFC having so many divisions and events, it can be hard to keep track of where things stand. I think this graphic does a good job of explaining the current situation. This is what I'm trying to do with Can Crusher Ratings, to make the state of MMA understandable.

For example, the previous post showed the distribution of the current light heavyweight ratings. I think it did a good job of illustrating how strong the UFC is, dominating the higher ratings. Fighters in the 80s are elite and rare, and we get to see four of them fight on Saturday (plus two middleweights in the 80s).

Wednesday, January 21, 2015

Histogram - LHW

Here's a histogram of the current ratings for active light heavyweights. Each 1x1 box corresponds to a fighter. For example, the purple box out at 104 is Jon Jones. Purple boxes are fighters whose last fight was in the UFC. Orange and yellow are for Bellator and WSOF, and green are for all the other promotions. Finally, the gray boxes are for the fighters who've had less than three fights.

Some caveats: Fighters change weight classes all the time, so this only represents my best guess at present. I guess by looking at the weight classes of their opponents, so I'm missing fighters who aren't connected to a larger group (for example, two debuting fighters who fight each other). But this should give you some idea of how the ratings are distributed.

Tuesday, January 20, 2015

Light Heavyweights

Phil Davis – History
2011-03-267983↑4Won (Unan.)79Antonio Nogueira
2012-01-288583↓3Lost (Unan.)90Rashad Evans
2012-08-048282No Contest53Wagner Prado
2012-10-138281↓1Won (Sub.)55Wagner Prado
2013-04-278183↑2Won (Unan.)69Vinny Magalhaes
2013-08-038388↑5Won (Unan.)89Lyoto Machida
2014-04-268984↓5Lost (Unan.)82Anthony Johnson
2014-10-258488↑4Won (Unan.)86Glover Teixeira
2015-01-2488NRVersus83Ryan Bader
Anthony Johnson – History
2011-03-267074↑4Won (Unan.)73Dan Hardy
2011-10-017377↑3Won (KO)73Charlie Brenneman
2012-01-147774↓2Lost (Sub.)82Vitor Belfort
2012-05-257476↑3Won (Unan.)69David Branch
2012-08-247676Won (TKO)54Esteves Jones
2012-09-217676↓1Won (TKO)58Jake Rosholt
2012-11-037678↑2Won (KO)70D.J. Linderman
2013-03-237881↑2Won (Unan.)73Andrei Arlovski
2014-01-188182↑1Won (KO)66Mike Kyle
2014-04-268286↑5Won (Unan.)89Phil Davis
2014-07-268689↑3Won (KO)85Antonio Nogueira
2015-01-2489NRVersus86Alexander Gustafsson

Davis has probably had the weirdest history here. He beat Wagner Prado but it was such a mismatch that he lost a point. Then he won a ridiculous unanimous decision over Machida, before being brought back to reality by Rumble (although that was a bit of a surprise at the time). If we gave Machida the unanimous decision, then Davis would be tied with Bader at 83 points right now. (Machida would be #8 P4P with 93 points and Weidman would only be a point behind Jones.)

Monday, January 19, 2015

On the Horizon

Upcoming fights between top-20 ranked fighters.

OrgOn the HorizonDate
UFC#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson±130#3LHW89Anthony Johnson2015-01-24
UFC#4LHW88Phil Davis±170#7LHW83Ryan Bader2015-01-24
UFC#13MW80Gegard Mousasi±130#8MW83Dan Henderson2015-01-24
UFC#3MW93Anderson Silva±380NRWW79Nick Diaz2015-01-31
UFC#6WW85Tyron Woodley±170#13WW79Kelvin Gastelum2015-01-31
UFC#16MW76Tim Boetsch±200#7MW83Thales Leites2015-01-31
UFC#7FLW71Ian McCall±300#19FLW60John Lineker2015-01-31
UFC#4W13565Miesha Tate±120#6W13563Sara McMann2015-01-31
Bellator#8FW76Pat Curran±140#14FW73Daniel Weichel2015-02-13

Top Tens

McGregor continues his slow rise. CCR has him around a +700 underdog against Aldo, but bookmakers have him under +200. They could see how impressive McGregor was, but CCR has to treat his win in the same way it treats Pendred's "win". That's the price it pays for objectivity.

Cerrone moves to the top of the lightweight division. I thought he lost, but it wasn't as bad as the Pendred decision. I would've loved to see two more rounds though.

There was a little bit of movement in the flyweight division. Reis has a decision win over Joby Sanchez, who took a split decision yesterday. That only boosted Reis's rating by 0.1 points, but he was trailing Formiga and McCall by less than that.

Pound-for-Pound
#1P4P104Jon Jones
#2P4P101Chris Weidman
#3P4P98Georges St. Pierre
#4P4P97Jose Aldo
#5P4P96Cain Velasquez
#6P4P93Vitor Belfort
#7P4P93Anderson Silva
#8P4P91Rory MacDonald
#9P4P91Daniel Cormier
#10P4P90Ronaldo Souza
Heavyweight
#1HW96Cain Velasquez
#2HW90Fabricio Werdum
#3HW89Junior dos Santos
#4HW81Travis Browne
#5HW78Andrei Arlovski
#6HW78Josh Barnett
#7HW77Ben Rothwell
#8HW76Mark Hunt
#9HW76Antonio Silva
#10HW76Alistair Overeem
Light Heavyweight
#1LHW104Jon Jones
#2LHW91Daniel Cormier
#3LHW89Anthony Johnson
#4LHW88Phil Davis
#5LHW88Rashad Evans
#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson
#7LHW83Ryan Bader
#8LHW83Glover Teixeira
#9LHW82Chael Sonnen
#10LHW81Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
Middleweight
#1MW101Chris Weidman
#2MW93Vitor Belfort
#3MW93Anderson Silva
#4MW90Ronaldo Souza
#5MW89Lyoto Machida
#6MW89Luke Rockhold
#7MW83Thales Leites
#8MW83Dan Henderson
#9MW82Mamed Khalidov
#10MW82Yoel Romero
Welterweight
#1WW98Georges St. Pierre
#2WW91Rory MacDonald
#3WW89Hector Lombard
#4WW88Johny Hendricks
#5WW86Ben Askren
#6WW85Tyron Woodley
#7WW84Robbie Lawler
#8WW84↑1Jake Shields
#9WW82Demian Maia
#10WW82Rousimar Palhares
Lightweight
#1LW↑190↑2Donald Cerrone
#2LW↓189Anthony Pettis
#3LW86Rafael dos Anjos
#4LW85Khabib Nurmagomedov
#5LW↑182Gilbert Melendez
#6LW↑182Will Brooks
#7LW↓281↓2Benson Henderson
#8LW81Shinya Aoki
#9LW81Eddie Alvarez
#10LW79Jim Miller
Featherweight
#1FW97Jose Aldo
#2FW89Frankie Edgar
#3FW↑187↑2Patricio Freire
#4FW↓185Chad Mendes
#5FW82Ricardo Lamas
#6FW79Cub Swanson
#7FW↑378↑3Conor McGregor
#8FW76Pat Curran
#9FW76Charles Oliveira
#10FW↓375↓2Daniel Straus
Bantamweight
#1BW85Dominick Cruz
#2BW81Renan Barao
#3BW79Raphael Assuncao
#4BW78Bibiano Fernandes
#5BW78T.J. Dillashaw
#6BW78Urijah Faber
#7BW75Joe Warren
#8BW73Iuri Alcantara
#9BW72Chris Holdsworth
#10BW69Aljamain Sterling
Flyweight
#1FLW81Demetrious Johnson
#2FLW78Joseph Benavidez
#3FLW75Kyoji Horiguchi
#4FLW74John Dodson
#5FLW↑271Wilson Reis
#6FLW↓171Jussier da Silva
#7FLW↓171Ian McCall
#8FLW68Hiromasa Ogikubo
#9FLW65Zach Makovsky
#10FLW65Yuki Motoya
 
Women Bantamweight
#1W13579Ronda Rousey
#2W13570Cat Zingano
#3W13567Sarah Kaufman
#4W13565Miesha Tate
#5W13564Alexis Davis
#6W13563Sara McMann
#7W13561Jessica Eye
#8W13560Holly Holm
#9W13559Bethe Correia
#10W13558Tonya Evinger
Women Strawweight
#1W11568Carla Esparza
#2W11567Jessica Aguilar
#3W11564Joanna Jedrzejczyk
#4W11563Claudia Gadelha
#5W11561Megumi Fujii
#6W11560Joanne Calderwood
#7W11560Rose Namajunas
#8W11559Tecia Torres
#9W11558Justine Kish
#10W11558Katja Kankaanpaa
Women Featherweight
#1W14560Marloes Coenen
#2W14558Julia Budd
#3W14553Ediane Gomes
Women Flyweight
#1W12566Barb Honchak
#2W12561DeAnna Bennett
#3W12558Vanessa Porto
Women Atomweight
#1W10562Ayaka Hamasaki
#2W10554Herica Tiburcio
#3W10550Michelle Waterson

Saturday, January 17, 2015

Fight Night

Bellator, WSOF and UFC have events this coming weekend.

UFC Fight Night - McGregor vs. Siver  (2015-01-18)
#10FW75Conor McGregor±150#18FW71Dennis Siver
#2LW89Donald Cerrone±170#5LW83Benson Henderson
#25MW72Uriah Hall±530#157MW55Ron Stallings
#25LW73Norman Parke±110#32LW72Gleison Tibau
#61WW67Cathal Pendred±140#88WW64Sean Spencer
#72WW66John Howard±130#69MW63Lorenz Larkin
#656WW47Lipeng Zhang±330#154LW59Chris Wade
#140BW53Patrick Holohan±190#138FLW47Shane Howell
#130LW60Johnny Case±120#166LW58Frankie Perez
#282FW51Charles Rosa±130#202FW54Sean Soriano
#103LHW55Sean O'Connell±120#84LHW57Matt Van Buren
#81FLW52Joby Sanchez±160#323BW47Tateki Matsuda

Vegas loves McGregor, they give Siver only a 10% chance of winning but CCR says it's closer to 40%. CCR actually disagrees with Vegas about a lot of fights on this card. It likes Cerrone over Henderson and favors Parke (slightly), Pendred, Howard, Soriano and Van Buren, all the opposite of Vegas. We'll see what happens!

UFC Fight Night - McGregor vs. Siver  (2015-01-18)
#7FW↑378↑3Conor McGregorTKO#20FW↓269↓3Dennis Siver
#1LW↑190↑2Donald CerroneUnan.#7LW↓281↓2Benson Henderson
#24MW↑173↑1Uriah HallTKO#176MW↓1954↓1Ron Stallings
#25LW↑773↑1Gleison TibauSplit#34LW↓971↓1Norman Parke
#44WW↑1769↑2Cathal PendredUnan.#124WW↓3662↓2Sean Spencer
#66WW67↑3Lorenz LarkinTKO#104WW↓3263↓3John Howard
#142LW↑1260↑1Chris WadeUnan.#775LW46↓1Lipeng Zhang
#47FLW55↑2Patrick HolohanUnan.NRFLW44↓3Shane Howell
#104LW↑2663↑3Johnny CaseTKO#224LW↓5856↓2Frankie Perez
#201FW↑8154↑3Charles RosaSub.#343FW↓14150↓4Sean Soriano
#68LHW↑3559↑4Sean O'ConnellTKO#123LHW↓3954↓3Matt Van Buren
#79FLW↑252Joby SanchezSplit#143FLW47Tateki Matsuda

CCR ended up getting most of those wrong (Parke, Howard, Soriano, Van Buren), but they were all predicted to be very close, ±130 or less. It should've gotten Cerrone and Pendred wrong too. The Pendred decision especially, you can't get wronger than that. CCR doesn't know about bad decisions though, so both fighters end up being a bit overrated.


WSOF 17 - Shields vs. Foster  (2015-01-17)
#8WW83Jake Shields±580#77WW65Brian Foster
NRLW64Brian Cobb±270#292LW54Jonathan Nunez
#123MW57Krasimir Mladenov±110#129MW57Brendan Kornberger
NRBW43Bryson Hansen±100NRLW43Rudy Morales
#362MW47Adam Cella±170#370WW52Danny Davis Jr.
#568WW48Gil Guardado±200#262LW55Sinjen Smith
#490LW50Jimmy Spicuzza±200NRWW43Joe Condon
NRFW43Soslan Abanokov±260#361WW52Jordan Rinaldi
NRFLW43Taylor McCorriston±200#231BW50Donavon Frelow
NRMW40Jamie Point±140NRMW37Trey Williams

There's quite a drop-off in talent after the main event (or within the main event). The big difference here compared to Vegas is CCR likes Cobb over Nunez.

WSOF 17 - Shields vs. Foster  (2015-01-17)
#8WW84↑1Jake ShieldsSub.#83WW↓664↓1Brian Foster
#635LW48↑5Joe CondonSub.#619LW↓32748↓6Jonathan Nunez
#88MW↑3561↑3Krasimir MladenovUnan.#202MW↓7353↓3Brendan Kornberger
#343BW47↑3Bryson HansenUnan.NRBW40↓3Rudy Morales
#282WW↑8854↑2Danny Davis Jr.Unan.NRWW45↓2Adam Cella
#219FW53↑1Jordan RinaldiSub.NRFW41↓1Soslan Abanokov
#82FLW52↑2Donavon FrelowUnan.NRFLW40↓2Taylor McCorriston
NRMW43↑6Trey WilliamsSub.NRMW37↓3Jamie Point

Bellator MMA - Bellator 132  (2015-01-16)
#4FW85Patricio Freire±240#7FW76Daniel Straus
#31FW66Georgi Karakhanyan±210#104FW59Bubba Jenkins
#132LHW54Houston Alexander±130#171LHW51Virgil Zwicker
#81WW65Marius Zaromskis±190#181WW58Fernando Gonzalez
#285MW49Luc Bondole±150NRWW45Chris Herrera
NRBW37Fabian Gonzalez±120NRN/A35Albert Morales
#133LW60Derek Anderson±270#466WW50Danny Navarro
#593LW48Steve Kozola±180NRWW54Jonathan Rivera
NRMW44Hector Carrillo±110NRLHW44Everett Cummings
#96MW60Dustin Jacoby±130#80MW62John Salter

Karakhanyan over Jenkins is the big difference here.

Bellator MMA - Bellator 132  (2015-01-16)
#3FW↑187↑2Patricio FreireSub.#10FW↓375↓2Daniel Straus
#23FW↑868↑2Georgi KarakhanyanSub.#136FW↓3257↓2Bubba Jenkins
#148LHW↑2352↑1Virgil ZwickerSplit#145LHW↓1352↓1Houston Alexander
#117WW↑6462↑4Fernando GonzalezUnan.#158WW↓7760↓5Marius Zaromskis
#295LHW46↑2Everett CummingsSub.NRHW36↓3Jason Glaza
#49MW↑3166↑4 John SalterSub.#120MW↓2457↓3Dustin Jacoby
#277LW↑31655↑6Steve KozolaKO#444LW50↓4Jonathan Rivera
#115LW↑1862↑2Derek AndersonTKO#558LW49↓1Danny Navarro
NRBW41↑6Albert MoralesSub.NRBW34↓2Fabian Gonzalez
#261MW50↑5Chris HerreraKO#412MW↓12746↓4Luc Bondole

Here's the event recap, with winners on the left. These are preliminary ranks & ratings, the official ones come on Monday. The ratings probably won't change much but the ranks could depending on what happens in other events.

Fun prelims, as usual. CCR got Karakhanyan right (wtf Herb Dean?). It was a great main event apart from the fouls. Pitbull is now the top fighter outside the UFC (#23 P4P).

Friday, January 16, 2015

Pitbull & Straus

The Bellator tournaments are pretty noticeable here: Freire in 2010, 2011 and late 2013 and Straus in early 2011 and early 2012. Each was three fights in nine weeks, something that's only been done once in the UFC (apart from the early tournaments), by Dustin Pague in the summer of 2012. (The shortest time between consecutive fights in the UFC is 13 days for Chas Skelly, followed closely by 14 days for Pague and Chris Leben and 15 days now for Donald Cerrone.) Freire beat Straus by unanimous decision in the final of the 2011 tournament.

Thursday, January 15, 2015

Top Non-UFC Fighters

These are the 18 fighters in the top 100 that aren't in the UFC. Coincidentally, three of them are fighting this weekend. I'm excluding #12 LHW 81 Quinton Jackson (#54 P4P), who may or may not be in the UFC depending on who you ask.

Top Non-UFC P4POrg
#25P4P#5WW86Ben AskrenOne FC
#29P4P#4FW85Patricio FreireBellator
#33P4P#8WW83Jake ShieldsWSOF
#41P4P#9MW82Mamed KhalidovKSW
#43P4P#7LW82Will BrooksBellator
#44P4P#10WW82Rousimar PalharesWSOF
#47P4P#11WW81Douglas LimaBellator
#49P4P#8LW81Shinya AokiIGF
#57P4P#12MW80David BranchWSOF
Top Non-UFC P4POrg
#58P4P#13LHW80Emanuel NewtonBellator
#65P4P#11LW79Dave JansenBellator
#67P4P#4BW78Bibiano FernandesOne FC
#74P4P#13LW78Michael ChandlerBellator
#83P4P#7FW76Daniel StrausBellator
#87P4P#8FW76Pat CurranBellator
#90P4P#14LHW76Tito OrtizBellator
#95P4P#20WW76Andrey KoreshkovBellator
#96P4P#17MW75Yushin OkamiWSOF

Cerrone & Henderson

Donald Cerrone – History
2010-09-307173↑3Won (Unan.)70Jamie Varner
2010-12-167474↑1Won (Sub.)66Chris Horodecki
2011-02-057476↑1Won (Sub.)65Paul Kelly
2011-06-117677↑1Won (Unan.)62Vagner Rocha
2011-08-147779↑2Won (TKO)70Charles Oliveira
2011-10-297981↑2Won (Sub.)75Dennis Siver
2011-12-308278↓4Lost (Unan.)75Nate Diaz
2012-05-157879↑1Won (Unan.)69Jeremy Stephens
2012-08-117981↑2Won (KO)72Melvin Guillard
2013-01-268077↓3Lost (KO)75Anthony Pettis
2013-05-257778↑1Won (Unan.)62K.J. Noons
2013-08-287876↓2Lost (Unan.)79Rafael dos Anjos
2013-11-167779↑2Won (Sub.)70Evan Dunham
2014-01-257981↑2Won (KO)73Adriano Martins
2014-04-198081↑1Won (Sub.)74Edson Barboza
2014-07-168184↑3Won (KO)81Jim Miller
2014-09-278486↑2Won (Unan.)85Eddie Alvarez
2015-01-038789↑2Won (Unan.)79Myles Jury
2015-01-1889NRVersus83Benson Henderson
Benson Henderson – History
2010-12-167874↓4Lost (Unan.)71Anthony Pettis
2011-04-307477↑3Won (Unan.)74Mark Bocek
2011-08-147681↑5Won (Unan.)87Jim Miller
2011-11-128184↑3Won (Unan.)80Clay Guida
2012-02-268387↑4Won (Unan.)94Frankie Edgar
2012-08-118788↑1Won (Split)87Frankie Edgar
2012-12-088890↑2Won (Unan.)82Nate Diaz
2013-04-209090↑1Won (Split)88Gilbert Melendez
2013-08-319085↓5Lost (Sub.)80Anthony Pettis
2014-01-258687↑1Won (Split)84Josh Thomson
2014-06-078687↑1Won (Sub.)73Rustam Khabilov
2014-08-238682↓4Lost (KO)80Rafael dos Anjos
2015-01-1883NRVersus89Donald Cerrone

Henderson's been pretty active for a top guy, usually fighting three times a year. But Cerrone is on a different level. These are their fights since Henderson won their rematch in mid-2010. It's been four and a half years, Henderson's had 12 fights and Cerrone's had 18.

Cerrone and Neil Magny are the only UFC fighters that have fought six times in a year (not counting the tournaments in the 1990s). Both are also among the few that have fought five times in a calendar year (the others are Chris Leben, Roger Huerta and Daron Cruickshank if you're counting his last fight that ended in a no contest after a brutal eye poke).

Tuesday, January 13, 2015

Conor McGregor's Career

Conor McGregor – History
2007-02-17NR47Won (TKO)NRCiaran Campbell
2008-03-084547↑3Won (TKO)NRGary Morris
2008-05-034647↑1Won (TKO)NRMo Taylor
2008-06-284845↓3Lost (Sub.)49Artemij Sitenkov
2008-12-124545Won (TKO)35Stephen Bailey
2010-10-094447↑3Won (TKO)43Connor Dillon
2010-11-274847↓1Lost (Sub.)61Joseph Duffy
2011-02-124750↑3Won (TKO)48Hugh Brady
2011-03-125051Won (KO)36Mike Wood
2011-04-165151↑1Won (KO)38Paddy Doherty
Conor McGregor – History
2011-06-115155↑4Won (TKO)52Artur Sowinski
2011-09-085455↑1Won (TKO)42Aaron Jahnsen
2012-02-185457↑3Won (KO)54Steve O'Keefe
2012-06-025658↑2Won (Sub.)52Dave Hill
2012-12-315861↑3Won (KO)59Ivan Buchinger
2013-04-066165↑4Won (TKO)65Marcus Brimage
2013-08-176567↑2Won (Unan.)60Max Holloway
2014-07-196871↑3Won (TKO)66Diego Brandao
2014-09-277175↑4Won (TKO)74Dustin Poirier
2015-01-1875NRVersus71Dennis Siver

Hopefully the table should be pretty easy to read: date of the fight, rating before the fight, rating after the fight and the difference between the two, the result of the fight, the opponent's rating at the time of the fight and the opponent's name. The circles on the graph correspond to McGregor's ratings after each fight.

McGregor lost to Joseph Duffy (who's just signed with the UFC) in late 2010, but it didn't hurt his rating because Duffy was by far the strongest opponent he'd faced. Siver will be his second-toughest test behind Poirier, although Siver's rating could've been higher: his win over Gamburyan at the end of 2013 was overturned after a failed drug test, and CCR ignores no contests. If that hadn't happened, Siver would be rated 74 today and their fight on Sunday would be nearly a coin toss.

Monday, January 12, 2015

On the Horizon

Upcoming fights between top-20 ranked fighters.

OrgOn the HorizonDate
Bellator#4FW85Patricio Freire±240#7FW76Daniel Straus2015-01-16
UFC#2LW89Donald Cerrone±170#5LW83Benson Henderson2015-01-18
UFC#10FW75Conor McGregor±150#18FW71Dennis Siver2015-01-18
UFC#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson±130#3LHW89Anthony Johnson2015-01-24
UFC#4LHW88Phil Davis±170#7LHW83Ryan Bader2015-01-24
UFC#13MW80Gegard Mousasi±130#8MW83Dan Henderson2015-01-24
UFC#3MW93Anderson Silva±380NRWW79Nick Diaz2015-01-31
UFC#6WW85Tyron Woodley±170#13WW79Kelvin Gastelum2015-01-31
UFC#16MW76Tim Boetsch±200#7MW83Thales Leites2015-01-31
UFC#6FLW71Ian McCall±300#19FLW60John Lineker2015-01-31
UFC#4W13565Miesha Tate±120#6W13563Sara McMann2015-01-31

Top Tens

No changes this week.

Pound-for-Pound
#1P4P104Jon Jones
#2P4P101Chris Weidman
#3P4P98Georges St. Pierre
#4P4P97Jose Aldo
#5P4P96Cain Velasquez
#6P4P93Vitor Belfort
#7P4P93Anderson Silva
#8P4P91Rory MacDonald
#9P4P91Daniel Cormier
#10P4P90Ronaldo Souza
Heavyweight
#1HW96Cain Velasquez
#2HW90Fabricio Werdum
#3HW89Junior dos Santos
#4HW81Travis Browne
#5HW78Andrei Arlovski
#6HW78Josh Barnett
#7HW77Ben Rothwell
#8HW76Mark Hunt
#9HW76Antonio Silva
#10HW76Alistair Overeem
Light Heavyweight
#1LHW104Jon Jones
#2LHW91Daniel Cormier
#3LHW89Anthony Johnson
#4LHW88Phil Davis
#5LHW88Rashad Evans
#6LHW86Alexander Gustafsson
#7LHW83Ryan Bader
#8LHW82Glover Teixeira
#9LHW82Chael Sonnen
#10LHW81Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
Middleweight
#1MW101Chris Weidman
#2MW93Vitor Belfort
#3MW93Anderson Silva
#4MW90Ronaldo Souza
#5MW89Lyoto Machida
#6MW89Luke Rockhold
#7MW83Thales Leites
#8MW83Dan Henderson
#9MW82Mamed Khalidov
#10MW82Yoel Romero
Welterweight
#1WW98Georges St. Pierre
#2WW91Rory MacDonald
#3WW88Hector Lombard
#4WW88Johny Hendricks
#5WW86Ben Askren
#6WW85Tyron Woodley
#7WW84Robbie Lawler
#8WW83Jake Shields
#9WW82Demian Maia
#10WW82Rousimar Palhares
Lightweight
#1LW89Anthony Pettis
#2LW89Donald Cerrone
#3LW86Rafael dos Anjos
#4LW85Khabib Nurmagomedov
#5LW83Benson Henderson
#6LW82Gilbert Melendez
#7LW82Will Brooks
#8LW81Shinya Aoki
#9LW80Eddie Alvarez
#10LW79Jim Miller
Featherweight
#1FW97Jose Aldo
#2FW89Frankie Edgar
#3FW85Chad Mendes
#4FW85Patricio Freire
#5FW82Ricardo Lamas
#6FW79Cub Swanson
#7FW76Daniel Straus
#8FW76Pat Curran
#9FW76Charles Oliveira
#10FW75Conor McGregor
Bantamweight
#1BW85Dominick Cruz
#2BW81Renan Barao
#3BW79Raphael Assuncao
#4BW78Bibiano Fernandes
#5BW78T.J. Dillashaw
#6BW78Urijah Faber
#7BW75Joe Warren
#8BW73Iuri Alcantara
#9BW72Chris Holdsworth
#10BW69Aljamain Sterling
Flyweight
#1FLW81Demetrious Johnson
#2FLW78Joseph Benavidez
#3FLW75Kyoji Horiguchi
#4FLW74John Dodson
#5FLW71Jussier da Silva
#6FLW71Ian McCall
#7FLW71Wilson Reis
#8FLW68Hiromasa Ogikubo
#9FLW65Zach Makovsky
#10FLW65Yuki Motoya
 
Women Bantamweight
#1W13579Ronda Rousey
#2W13570Cat Zingano
#3W13567Sarah Kaufman
#4W13565Miesha Tate
#5W13564Alexis Davis
#6W13563Sara McMann
#7W13561Jessica Eye
#8W13560Holly Holm
#9W13559Bethe Correia
#10W13558Tonya Evinger
Women Strawweight
#1W11568Carla Esparza
#2W11567Jessica Aguilar
#3W11564Joanna Jedrzejczyk
#4W11563Claudia Gadelha
#5W11561Megumi Fujii
#6W11560Joanne Calderwood
#7W11560Rose Namajunas
#8W11559Tecia Torres
#9W11558Justine Kish
#10W11558Katja Kankaanpaa
Women Featherweight
#1W14560Marloes Coenen
#2W14558Julia Budd
#3W14553Ediane Gomes
Women Flyweight
#1W12566Barb Honchak
#2W12561DeAnna Bennett
#3W12558Vanessa Porto
Women Atomweight
#1W10562Ayaka Hamasaki
#2W10554Herica Tiburcio
#3W10550Michelle Waterson

Monday, January 5, 2015

The Lawler Situation

Here's a graph of Lawler and some of his opponents. He had a rough run in Strikeforce before being reborn in the UFC.


Currently Brown is #15, Koscheck is #22 and Ellenberger is #26. MacDonald beat #6 Woodley and #9 Maia. Woodley beat #12 Condit and #14 Kim (and Koscheck). Lombard beat #8 Shields. And Askren beat a lot of guys...

The split decisions hurt him too. Below are the current Welterweight ratings under three different scenarios. The first is reality, the second is after changing the split decision over Hendricks to unanimous, and the third is after changing both his Hendricks and MacDonald split decisions to unanimous.

Jones-Cormier Recap


Here's a recap of Saturday's event. Winners are on the left. Cormier dropped to #9 on the pound-for-pound list. Gaudinot moved up slightly (0.3 points) even though he lost, and actually Horiguchi moved up also (0.1 points, to a rating of exactly 75 because he's the #100 active fighter). That's the match-making assumption having a (very small) effect.

Saturday, January 3, 2015

Explaining the Rating System (IV)

Here are the top fighters in each division. One oddity I'll mention is Robbie Lawler, who's only #7 WW. He just beat #3 Hendricks but it was a split decision, and he lost a unanimous decision to Hendricks not even a year ago. Generally, the winner of a fight comes out with the better rating, but roughly 5% of the time they don't, including about 25% of the time when the result is a split decision. This was one of those times. CCR gives Hendricks a 59% chance (-140) of winning the rubber match.


I plan to do event previews and recaps each week, along with other random stuff I think people might find interesting. Let me know what you think, good or bad. Suggestions are welcome.

Explaining the Rating System (III)

Here's a graph of various pound-for-pound ranks, with points calculated monthly. By coincidence the ratings roughly translate to letter grades. You can think of #100 = 75 points being a "C" average (although being #100 in the world is pretty good!). Then #10 is around 90 points or an "A", #1000 is around 60 points or a "D", and so on. It's a bit tricky looking earlier than 1995 because there aren't really 100 active fighters. There's been just six fighters with ratings above 100: Bas Rutten, Fedor Emelianenko, Georges St. Pierre, Anderson Silva, Jon Jones and Chris Weidman.


Here's a graph of nine of the ten fighters that have held the #1 Pound-for-Pound ranking since 1995. I'm omitting Igor Vovchanchyn who became #1 by default for two months at the start of 2001 after Bas dropped from inactivity and Hendo lost to Wanderlei and before Big Nog won the Rings King of Kings Tournament. This is the big dip at that point in the pound-for-pound graph.


You can click the graphs to get a larger view.

Explaining the Rating System (II)

Other sports have advantages over MMA as far as rating systems go. They may have hundreds of games a season with only a dozen or two teams, and they may have a balanced schedule so that a team's record is a fairly good indication of their skill. A team may have many players contributing to a their success, so that their skill level stays relatively constant over time even when they lose or gain players by injuries or trades. Many games are determined by the accumulation of points, so "worse" teams may win a few battles but ultimately lose the war.

Contrast that with MMA, where everyone has a puncher's chance, where "styles make fights", and the extreme case where "worse" fighters can lay-and-pray or wall-and-stall to a decision win. Skills can vary greatly as fighters learn new techniques or lose their chins. And there's thousands upon thousands of fighters, with only a fraction having more than a dozen or two fights their whole career.

As motivation, let me talk about the simple case where two fighters fight each another a bunch of times. Suppose one of them wins s times out of n fights. What's the best guess at the probability that he wins the next fight? You might want to say it's just his win percentage s/n, but this would mean for example that a fighter who was 1-0 would have a 100% chance of winning the next fight. That's not very reasonable.

Laplace's rule of succession says that the best guess is (s+1)/(n+2). In the 1-0 case this is (1+1)/(1+2) = 2/3 or 67%. In general, this means that we add two fights to a fighter's record, one win and one loss. So if a fighter wins 100 fights in a row, his chance of winning the 101st is 101/102 = 99.02%.

CCR uses the Bradley-Terry framework, which says that the likelihood that fighter i beats fighter j is Prob(i beats j) = p_i/(p_i + p_j), where p_i and p_j are the fighters' strengths. Often in this setup the strengths are converted to ratings by setting p_i = c^r_i where c is a constant (for example, c = 10^(1/400) in the ELO rating system). This way the probability depends on the difference of the two ratings rather than the ratio of the two strengths, and differences are often easier to work with and understand intuitively.

CCR tries to find the most likely set of ratings given the fight outcomes. Bayes' theorem says that Prob(ratings | results) = Prob(results | ratings) * Prob(ratings) / Prob(results). So maximizing the left-hand side (the probability of the ratings given the fight results) is the same as maximizing the right-hand side. Prob(results) is constant since the results are fixed. Prob(results | ratings) = probability of the fight results given the ratings, is just the product of Prob(i beats j) over all fights where fighter i beat fighter j. And Prob(ratings), called the "prior", is where the assumption about the extra win and loss comes in. That is, Prob(ratings) is equal to the product of Prob(i beats 0)*Prob(0 beats i) over all fighters i, where fighter 0 is the "average fighter" (or "dummy") with fixed rating r_0 (usually = 0).

Solving for the maximum produces a decent set of ratings. (** I'm leaving out one additional detail which I'll discuss in a few paragraphs.) But there were some anomalies. There were some...


...can crushers. Not that there's anything wrong with that... Some undefeated guys seemed to be rated a little too high, or maybe some veterans seemed to be rated a little too low. Not a huge deal, but enough to make me take another look at the prior.

If MMA has an advantage over other sports from a rating perspective, it's in the match-making. Generally fights are between fighters of comparable skill, meaning that just knowing the match-ups (and not knowing the results) tells us something about how the ratings should cluster. The prior used above corresponds to a win and loss to an average fighter, but the rule of succession was meant for an average opponent. Thus to account for match-making, CCR divides each fighter's extra win and loss equally among their opponents, including the two dummies.

(Dividing it only among their real opponents can lead to unreasonable ratings. For example, suppose a person had only one fight that was a loss to Jon Jones. Jones currently has a rating of 102 and the "average fighter" has a rating of 32. Let's take those to be fixed values for the moment. The original prior corresponded to a win and loss to the dummy, meaning a total record of 0-1 against Jones and 1-1 against the dummy. This translates to a rating of 31.98 -- he doesn't drop much from the Jones loss because he was expected to lose badly. The prior corresponding to a win and loss divided equally among his real opponents means a record of 1-2 against Jones. This translates to a rating of 95, which is good enough to be #6 on the pound-for-pound list! Finally, the prior with the extra win and loss divided equally among his three opponents (Jones and the two dummies) means a record of 0.333-1.333 against Jones and 0.667-0.667 against the dummy. This translates to a rating of 43, which seems to be a reasonable compromise between the other two numbers. (Anthony Pina's actual rating is 43.))

** The additional detail: CCR also accounts for a fighter's skill changing through time. Instead of calculating one rating, it calculates a fighter's rating at the time of each fight. Those ratings are connected by a Wiener process (no joke), which depends on a parameter w. If w is very small, then the ratings are nearly constant, meaning that it treats a fighter's skill as constant over their whole career. If w is very large, then the ratings are nearly disconnected from each other, meaning that a fighter's rating is determined by only their last fight. So it's about finding the right balance between the two. Ultimately there's a range of reasonable values, but I settled on w = 6 points/sqrt(year). (This system is called Whole-History Rating, and you can read the paper at that link for more details including the algorithm that's used to determine the ratings.)

A few other notes: CCR ignores no contests, disqualifications and fights against unknown opponents, but it includes amateur and TUF fights (since those give some indication of a fighter's skill). It counts a draw as 1/2 win and 1/2 loss and a split decision as 2/3 win and 1/3 loss. It scales the natural ratings by a factor of ten and rounds them, because rating differences smaller than that are negligible. (A one point rating difference translates to a win probability of 52.5%-47.5% or moneyline of ±110.)

Finally, the growth of MMA has lead to ratings inflation. To adjust for this, CCR sets the rating of the #100 active fighter to 75. (A fighter's inactive if they haven't fought in the past 18 months.) The idea is that we can compare fighters of different eras by looking at how much better they were than their contemporaries. The next post has some graphs that should illustrate this.

The nice thing about CCR compared to Fight Matrix or ScoreCardMMA is that it doesn't depend on arbitrary formulas or parameters. Every dynamic rating system will have a parameter (like w) that controls how quickly the ratings change. But beyond that, there's nothing to tweak with CCR. The ratings are what they are, like it or not.

Explaining the Rating System (I)

I'm so pumped for tonight. Is Jones/Cormier the biggest fight ever? According to Can Crusher Ratings, it just might be. Here's the top 10 fights according to combined fighter rating at the time of the fight:


Jones and Cormier currently total 102 + 93 = 194 points, which puts them first all-time. And if that weren't enough, Weidman-Belfort at the end of February has the potential to be even bigger. It's a great time to be an MMA fan.

My goal here was to develop a simple and predictive system that gives reasonable and interesting results, and I think I've done that. The best "system" is probably Vegas, which predicts the winners 68% of the time according to BestFightOdds. On the same set of fights, CCR picks the correct winners in 64% of UFC fights and 65% of non-UFC fights (over 2000 fights in each group). And it's well calibrated: fighters that it claims have a 30% chance of winning end up winning about 30% of the time. For all fights listed on Sherdog since 2001 where both fighters have at least three previous fights, it correctly predicts the winners 70% of the time.

There's other objective systems out there, including Fight Matrix and ScoreCardMMA. I think both of those are really cool, but they're also complicated and arbitrary (and neither aim to be predictive). I'll explain how my system works in the next post and end here with tonight's card:


The moneylines mostly agree with the bookmakers. The big exception is Dunham-Damm, where Dunham is about -500 but CCR has it even.